[Babase] Fwd: quick tooth question
Susan Alberts
alberts at duke.edu
Fri Jul 16 22:19:16 EDT 2010
Thanks for the clarification, I didn't understand you were proposing
both. I am fine with using both numbers and the "upper left M1"
designations. I didn't understand system one of the two that Lacey
sent, so i guess I would go with two.
Susan
On Jul 16, 2010, at 12:20 PM, Karl O. Pinc wrote:
> On 07/16/2010 09:01:25 AM, Jeanne Altmann wrote:
>> What does this gain us?
>
> It provides a mapping of sorts between deciduous
> and adult teeth. The toothcodes distinguish between
> deciduous and adult where toothsites do not. This
> way you can choose either to ignore deciduous-ness
> or not.
>
> The cost to do this is the cost of having this discussion.
> Once the support tables are populated with rows
> we can forget about it until a need
> arises to query one way or the other.
>
>>
>> jeanne
>>
>>
>>
>> From: babase-bounces at eeblistserv.princeton.edu
>> [mailto:babase-bounces at eeblistserv.princeton.edu] On Behalf Of Lacey
>> Maryott Roerish
>> Sent: Friday, July 16, 2010 10:00 AM
>> To: The Baboon Database Project
>> Subject: Re: [Babase] Fwd: quick tooth question
>>
>>
>>
>> To be clear, this numbering doesn't replace that system. We will
>> have
>> toothcodes such as upper right M1 (RUM1). The toothsites is a
>> different column in which we identify the actual site in the mouth
>> where the tooth is found.
>>
>>
>>
>> L
>>
>>
>>
>> On Fri, Jul 16, 2010 at 8:54 AM, Jeanne Altmann <altj at princeton.edu>
>> wrote:
>>
>> I agree; thanks for checking into options and conventions.
>> jeanne
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: babase-bounces at eeblistserv.princeton.edu
>> [mailto:babase-bounces at eeblistserv.princeton.edu] On Behalf Of Susan
>> Alberts
>> Sent: Friday, July 16, 2010 9:51 AM
>> To: The Baboon Database Project
>> Subject: Re: [Babase] Fwd: quick tooth question
>>
>> I don't think we should use either one of these. I realize that they
>> are standard, but none of us thinks or looks at teeth enough for
>> this
>> to be easy for us. I would prefer to stick with upper right M1, etc,
>> with the designation of D. for deciduous.
>>
>> Susan
>> On Jul 15, 2010, at 11:10 AM, Lacey Maryott R oerish wrote:
>>
>>> I consulted with Jordi regarding toothsites for the darting
>>> database. He said 2 systems for assigning toothsites are widely
>>> used. I have included links for both. I don't have a particular
>>> preference, except that the second one (The one recommended by
>>> jordi) differentiates more clearly between deciduous and adult.
>>> So for example, Using system one, the upper right decidous M1 would
>>> be toothsite 28, and the upper right permanent M1 would be
>> toothsite
>>> 30, whereas the upper right Permanent premolar 1 would be toothsite
>>> 28.
>>>
>>> http://www.redbankendodontics.com/images/referring-doctors/
>> permanent-dentition.gif
>>> (system 1)
>>>
>>> Using system two, the upper right decidous M1 would be toothsite
>> 54,
>>> and the upper right permanent M1 would be toothsite 16, whereas the
>>> upper right Permanent premolar 1 would be toothsite 14.
>>>
>>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dental_notation (system 2)
>>>
>>> Susan, Jeanne, do you have any preference? Anyone else have any
>> input?
>>>
>>> FWIW, jordi mentioned a third system, but that is basically what we
>>> are already using for the toothcodes. That is why i haven't
>>> elaborated on it here.
>>>
>>> Cheers
>>> Lacey
>>>
>>>
>>> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
>>> From: Jordi Galbany <jordigalbany at gmail.com>
>>> Date: Thu, Jul 15, 2010 at 6:40 AM
>>> Subject: Re: quick tooth question
>>> To: Lacey Maryott Roerish <lkm9 at duke.edu>
>>>
>>>
>>> Hi Lacey!
>>> I'm doing well! But still looking for a job! I hope you improve
>> your
>>> situation, whatever is going on...
>>>
>>>
>>> Regarding teeth positions, "sites" or notation, there are mostly 3
>>> methods than can be applied. The first one is the diagram you found
>>> (the Universal numbering system)... but I think is not really very
>>> intuitive... There is a second numeric system, more logical, where
>> you
>>> also assign a number to a tooth, but taking into account if that
>>> particular tooth is on the left of right side, and lower or upper
>>> jaw... following this diagram (World dental federation system):
>>>
>>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dental_notation
>>>
>>>
>>> Both systems are numeric, but you have to add letters (Universal
>>> system) or more numbers (WDF system) for milk teeth...
>>>
>>>
>>> I don't like any of these systems, although I have to use them
>>> sometimes, especially for particular analysis. I prefer to use a
>>> more descriptive method, more common in anthropology. As, for
>>> example, LLM1 (lower left M1 or first molar), URI2 (upper right I2
>> o
>>> second incisor)... Even LM1 for lower and LM1 for upper... Always,
>> "I"
>>> means incisor, "C": canine, "P": premolar and "M": molar. Capital
>>> letters is used for adult teeth and for milk teeth you use "i", "c"
>>> and "m", but the same system...
>>>
>>>
>>> Humans and baboons have the same number of teeth... so you can use
>>> any of these notations for both...
>>>
>>>
>>> I hope it's clear enough!
>>>
>>>
>>> Best,
>>>
>>> jordi
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> El 14/07/2010 17:47, Lacey Maryott Roerish escribió:
>>>> Jordi,
>>>>
>>>> Hello! how are you? Doing ok here, things a bit
>> complicated
>>>> right now, But I will be ok :). I have one more quick question
>>>> for you. I am trying to assign 'tooth sites' for each of the
>> teeth
>>>> in the baboon's mouth. I found a diagram online, but can you tell
>>>> me if this is the generally accepted labeling of tooth sites? We
>>>> just need SOME numeric system.
>>>>
>>>> http://www.redbankendodontics.com/images/referring-doctors/
>> permanent-dentition.gif
>>>>
>>>> Thanks so much
>>>> Lacey
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> - -
>>> Lacey K. Maryott Roerish
>>> Alberts Lab
>>> Department of Biology
>>> Duke University
>>> ph: 919-660-7306
>>> fax: 919-660-7293
>>> Lacey.Maryott at duke.edu
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Babase mailing list
>>> Babase at www.eco.princeton.edu
>>> http://www.eco.princeton.edu/mailman/listinfo/babase
>>
>> --------------------------------------------------------
>> Susan Alberts, Dept of Biology, Duke University, Box 90338, Durham NC
>> 27708, 919-660-7272 (Ph), 919-660-7293 (Fax)
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
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>>
>>
>> --
>> - -
>> Lacey K. Maryott Roerish
>> Alberts Lab
>> Department of Biology
>> Duke University
>> ph: 919-660-7306
>> fax: 919-660-7293
>> Lacey.Maryott at duke.edu
>>
>>
>
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>
> Karl <kop at meme.com>
> Free Software: "You don't pay back, you pay forward."
> -- Robert A. Heinlein
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--------------------------------------------------------
Susan Alberts, Dept of Biology, Duke University, Box 90338, Durham NC
27708, 919-660-7272 (Ph), 919-660-7293 (Fax)
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