[Babase] Matured Dates after Statdate

Susan Alberts alberts at duke.edu
Wed Nov 29 12:23:48 EST 2006


oops, I never got back to you on this. Sorry.

I have looked for all the info that I can find. It appears that he  
was an adult male that immigrated and emigrated on the dates you  
name. I think that we should give him matured and ranked BY dates  
equal to the date he immigrated (19 Jan 1977). Then, make a note to  
yourself when Jeanne comes back to ask her and confirm that WART was  
an adult male. There are no extant notes about this and only her  
memory will tell us. If she doesn't remember then I am not sure what  
we will do. But I am pretty sure I have heard him described as an  
adult male, and subadult or juv immigrants were rare in those days  
(still are) so would be remembered.

Susan

On Nov 20, 2006, at 4:29 PM, kfenn wrote:

> Hi Susan,
>
> I think the only outstanding individual to date is WAR, a male.   
> (I've just figured out solutions for three females with a similar  
> problem (MAV, ROV, DEE).
> WAR was first censused in Altos group on Jan 19, 1977.  He was last  
> censused in Altos groups on 1978-10-16 (so statdate = 1978-10-16).  
> Altos census continued after this but WAR was not part of it.  This  
> was not surprising since he had been missing from the group during  
> some Oct census days.   I specifically checked  the Sept 1980 data  
> (his supposed maturedate was 1980-09-01) to see if there was a  
> record of his reappearance.  There was not.  His birthday was  
> estimated to be 1966 so a 1980 maturedate seems way out of bounds.   
> He was probably matured by the time he was being census in 1977,  
> but I can't find a specific place where it confirms maturity so I'm  
> not comfortable changing the date to something earlier.
> All this comes from the old data sheets I sent to Duke recently.  I  
> think Leah was going to have you review this so I'm not sure if  
> that was the intent of her original email about the statdate/ 
> maturedate issue.
> Tabby
>
>
> Susan Alberts wrote:
>>>
>>> The individuals I am dealing with appear to have artificially  
>>> assigned  matured date.
>>
>> How can you tell? Can you give me some examples?
>>
>>
>>> Observations on some groups (like Protons)  seem to have been  
>>> discontinued after a certain period.
>>
>> Observations were discontinued on a regular basis, but we  
>> continued to see Proton's group and record information about its  
>> members for many years after this.
>>
>> Susan
>>
>>> I have found no evidence that the individuals with errors were  
>>> seen after the last statdate.
>>>
>>> How would you like to proceed given this?  I understand your  
>>> point about the artificial statdates, but that doesn't seem to be  
>>> the case here.
>>>
>>>
>>> Tabby
>>>
>>> Susan Alberts wrote:
>>>> I think that if we have a matured date that occurs after the  
>>>> statdate, the obvious inference is that the statdate is  
>>>> incorrect. I think we need to change the statdate. I am pretty  
>>>> sure that we made this decision, but I think it probably got  
>>>> lost in the shuffle.
>>>>
>>>> Specifically, I recall that we realized that a lot of animals in  
>>>> proton's have an artificial statdate -- that in many cases we  
>>>> know they were around after the statdate because we saw them and  
>>>> have info on them. Eventually, in principle, we want to update  
>>>> all these statdates to reflect reality. In principle, we only  
>>>> need to do it now for the ones that are causing conversion errors.
>>>>
>>>> So, make the statdate equal to the maturedate for now.
>>>>
>>>> Susan
>>>>
>>>> On Nov 13, 2006, at 7:48 PM, Leah Gerber wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Karl and Susan,
>>>>>
>>>>> I just wanted to check to see if we had made a final decision  
>>>>> on whether matured "by" dates could be after statdates. For  
>>>>> dispersed dates this is allowed but I thought we had decided it  
>>>>> would not be allowed for matured dates. Tabby has a couple of  
>>>>> outstanding conversion errors for which this occurs.  The  
>>>>> options are:
>>>>>
>>>>> 1. allow this to occur (like for dispersed dates)
>>>>> 2. change the date to the statdate
>>>>> 3. delete the date
>>>>>
>>>>> I think the answer needs to be explicitly stated in the  
>>>>> documentation.
>>>>>
>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>>
>>>>> Leah
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> Babase mailing list
>>>>> Babase at www.eco.princeton.edu <http://www.eco.princeton.edu>
>>>>> http://www.eco.princeton.edu/mailman/listinfo/babase
>>>>
>>>> -----------------------------------------------
>>>> Susan Alberts, Dept. Biology, Duke University, Durham NC 27708.  
>>>> Phone 919-660-7272, Fax 919-660-7293. alberts at duke.edu  
>>>> <mailto:alberts at duke.edu>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------- 
>>>> -----
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Babase mailing list
>>>> Babase at www.eco.princeton.edu <http://www.eco.princeton.edu>
>>>> http://www.eco.princeton.edu/mailman/listinfo/babase
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> -- 
>>> Tabby Fenn
>>> Research Assistant
>>>
>>> Dept of Ecology and Evolutionary Biology
>>> 401 Guyot Hall
>>> Princeton University
>>> Princeton, NJ  08544
>>>
>>> 609 258-6898 (Ph)
>>> 609 258-2712 (Fx)
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Babase mailing list
>>> Babase at www.eco.princeton.edu <http://www.eco.princeton.edu>
>>> http://www.eco.princeton.edu/mailman/listinfo/babase
>>
>> -----------------------------------------------
>> Susan Alberts, Dept. Biology, Duke University, Durham NC 27708.  
>> Phone 919-660-7272, Fax 919-660-7293. alberts at duke.edu  
>> <mailto:alberts at duke.edu>
>>
>>
>>
>> --------------------------------------------------------------------- 
>> ---
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Babase mailing list
>> Babase at www.eco.princeton.edu
>> http://www.eco.princeton.edu/mailman/listinfo/babase
>>
>
> -- 
> Tabby Fenn
> Research Assistant
>
> Dept of Ecology and Evolutionary Biology
> 401 Guyot Hall
> Princeton University
> Princeton, NJ  08544
>
> 609 258-6898 (Ph)
> 609 258-2712 (Fx)
>
> _______________________________________________
> Babase mailing list
> Babase at www.eco.princeton.edu
> http://www.eco.princeton.edu/mailman/listinfo/babase

-----------------------------------------------
Susan Alberts, Dept. Biology, Duke University, Durham NC 27708. Phone  
919-660-7272, Fax 919-660-7293. alberts at duke.edu



-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: http://www.eco.princeton.edu/pipermail/babase/attachments/20061129/b3a174cb/attachment.html


More information about the Babase mailing list