[Babase] Fwd: Follow-up on double female ranks for given rnkdate
and rnktype
Catherine Markham
babase@www.eco.princeton.edu
Thu, 19 May 2005 10:37:43 -0400
Hi Susan,
I was getting back into the rank issue this morning. - I wanted to look
more closely at the cases where a female was ranked in 2.1 and 2.2 on
the same rank date.
For the ALF rnktype, only 6 females have this double ranking - LAZ, MYS,
WAG, PUM, LIG, and KOL. Rank date varies a bit for each female, but in
general rankings in both groups occur between 1995-96. When I checked
the members table, each one of these individuals was censused in both
2.1 and 2.2 during the months with the double ranks.
Bottom line is that it looks to me like having ranks for these females
in 2.1 and 2.2 is legal. It reflects the fact that they were present in
both groups in a given month.
Catherine
Susan Alberts wrote:
> Thanks Catherine,
>
> This is very helpful. I've retained the entire text of your original
> message below, without the attachmen t.
>
> To summarize:
> -it seems that we did the same thing for both males and females during
> the Alto's fission, ie we ranked them both in the supergroup and in the
> fission product.
> -for the females, the fission product ranks are "corrected" -- that is,
> if they are ranked 4 in the supergroup, but are the highest ranking
> female in the fission product, then they receive a rank of 1 in the
> fission product.
> -for males, the fission product ranks are uncorrected -- they are the
> same absolute rank as in the supergroup.
> -we don't want this to be true: males should retain the same ORDER in
> the fission product as in the supergroup but not the same absolute rank.
> If there are two males in Dotty's group, and they are ranked 2 and 5 in
> the supergroup, they should be 1 and 2 in Dotty's
> -it looks as though there may ALSO be some OTHER periods of time where
> animals are ranked in two groups, and some of these may be errors. That
> is, it is "legal" for an animal to be ranked both in a supergroup and in
> a group, but it is not legal for an animal to be ranked in two groups
> (unless he actually lived in two groups in that month, which will
> generally only be true for males).
>
> So, on our end we need to (1) correct the fission product ranks to
> reflect relative but not abslute ranks in the supergroup and (2) see
> whether any other peiods of time are characterized by double rankings
> for males. Catherine will pursue (2) for females.
>
> Susan
>
>> X-Sieve: CMU Sieve 2.2
>> Date: Mon, 16 May 2005 12:58:05 -0400
>> From: Catherine Markham <amarkham@Princeton.EDU>
>> Organization: Princeton University
>> X-Accept-Language: en-us, en
>> To: Susan Alberts <alberts@duke.edu>, Leah Gerber <lgerber@duke.edu>,
>> Jeanne Altmann <altj@Princeton.EDU>, Karl Pink <kop@meme.com>
>> Subject: Follow-up on double female ranks for given rnkdate and rnktype
>>
>> Hi all,
>>
>> Here's a quick summary of what I found regarding double ranks for
>> females in BaBase. Susan, hopefully this is what you had in mind . . .
>>
>> I queried the ranks table and pulled out all records where a female
>> was ranked in two groups on the same rank date for the same rank type
>> (for example, CEL in February 1991 for ADF ranks was ranked in 1.00
>> and 1.10). I've attached an Excel file with one spreadsheet
>> containing the raw data (sname, rank date, rank type, Group A ID and
>> rank, and Group B ID and rank) as well as a spreadsheet of summary
>> info showing which groups are involved in the "double" records.
>>
>> Looks like the Alto's fission accounts for most times a baboon is
>> ranked twice for a given rank date. However, there are also quite a
>> few records where a female was ranked in both Linda's and Weaver's
>> group in the same month. I think Jeanne and I had discussed this
>> several weeks ago and decided it was likely a data entry error and
>> should be cleaned-up. Jeanne, am I remembering that right?
>>
>> The other aspect of this I wanted to follow-up on was whether or not
>> the ranks themselves were different between the super-group and
>> fission product. Looks to me like they are, though I still want to
>> check and see if we have any written notes about protocols for
>> handling this.
>>
>> Hope that helps,
>> Catherine
>>
>>
>>
>
>
--
Catherine Markham
Department of Ecology and Evolutionary Biology
Princeton University
Phone: (609) 258-6898
Fax: (609) 258-2712