[Babase] AMOK Questions

Susan Alberts alberts at duke.edu
Mon Aug 4 09:45:57 EDT 2008


Thanks for the input Jeanne. See below.

>
> 1. This could be considered a variant on the situation in which we
> assigned some maternity situations when we first started with a group
> (e.g. Spot as Alto's daughter), or the assignments we did with kids  
> born
> during the bad coverage period in the early 90's when the newly
> fissioned groups were in TZ, though the question of 2 lines does not
> arise in those.

Yes, this is a variant of those although slightly different, good point.
>
>
> 2. I favor a single line, probably with the AMO name, the name  
> decision
> being based on our probably having close to zero information under the
> name of BIL and so we presumably could track down all uses of BIL.  If
> this assumption is false, I would reconsider.  [The two times Daphne  
> had
> to track down all uses of a name that turned out to be bad, it was a
> huge job and one that is impossible to feel confident in.]

Agreed that BIL would be easier to replace than AMO. I also recall the  
difficulty Daphne faced in doing the replacing. Perhaps on Thurs we  
can talk about how we could estimate replacement effort.
>
>
> 3. I favor the alias table, while acknowledging the concern about  
> tables
> that just are basically 'burial places for odd information'. Would a
> couple of demog notes be better? Same for the cases I mention above

This would change the current definition of the demog table but that  
is not necessarily a bad thing. However, it seems possible that the  
information might get more buried in demog table than in an alias  
table. Let's talk about this on Thurs.
>
>
> 4. I agree that these presumably rare cases should be dealt with
> individually.  I am concerned about instances in which a reasonable
> amount of data exist under each name (see 2. above).  How do we handle
> that?

It seems likely that if we know an individual well enough to get a lot  
of data on him (or her I suppose) then they are not very likely to  
appear in another study group without being recognized. BIL was only  
known as an infant. BOWL, just a year and a few months older, the team  
was quite sure they would know But it is of course possible. I am not  
sure we can guard against this possibility, we will just have to see  
what happens.
>
>
> 5. If we do consider BIL=AMO, and I agree that we do, I think that in
> this case, even maternal parity & rank for AMO should be that for  
> BIL as
> we had enough demographic coverage of Lodge group during that period  
> to
> do so.

OK, I am comfortable with your call but would like to just talk it  
through on Thurs anyway.
>
>
> 6. With a single line for AMO=BIL, will we run into problems with the
> gap in his early maturational marker data? Matdate? Disperse date? Or
> are we ok because, as Karl notes, rules are less rigid for males and
> also we now have the matured by and such options?

Males are required to have maturedates and rankdates if they are  
adult, but there is not a problem with these being "BY" dates rather  
than "ON" dates. I think for AMO they are both "BY" dates (meaning we  
don't know when he attained them as he was considered adult when he  
entered). Males are not required to have disperse dates. I don't think  
that deciding he was = BIL would change this.

S

>
>
> jeanne
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: babase-bounces at eeblistserv.princeton.edu
> [mailto:babase-bounces at eeblistserv.princeton.edu] On Behalf Of Karl O.
> Pinc
> Sent: Monday, July 14, 2008 7:29 PM
> To: The Baboon Database Project
> Subject: Re: [Babase] AMOK Questions
>
>
> On 07/14/2008 05:11:21 PM, Susan Alberts wrote:
>
>> GIven that we are sort of waffly on the "sure" part, I like Karl's
>> suggestion:
>>
>>>> ......
>>
>>>> I could see a table called something like
>>> ALTERNATE_SNAMES.  It'd have, say, 5 rows:
>
>>> That way when you've got data outside Babase with the "bad" sname in
>>> it you can still work with the data and link it to the "good"
>>> sname.
>
> A table like this (or call it nicknames? aliases?
> sobriquets?) can be used
> either way you decide the question of whether or not to have a single
> row for AMO & BIL.  (And you don't have to make the same decision in  
> the
> future regarding another immigrant male as you do with AMO/BIL.)
>
> So anyway, you've got options.  No doubt enough to give your self  
> enough
> rope to hang yourself with, but that's life.  :-)
>
> Karl <kop at meme.com>
> Free Software:  "You don't pay back, you pay forward."
>                  -- Robert A. Heinlein
>
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--------------------------------------------------------
Susan Alberts, Dept of Biology, Duke University, Box 90338, Durham NC  
27708, 919-660-7272 (Ph), 919-660-7293 (Fax)



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