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I don't feel qualified to comment on this, I would need input from JA and Tabby.<div>S</div><div><br><div><div>On Feb 23, 2008, at 4:32 PM, Karl O. Pinc wrote:</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><blockquote type="cite"><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">Hi,</div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; min-height: 14px; "><br></div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">It looks like there are a few periods of time when there is supposed</div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">to be observation of sexual cycle events but there are no sexual</div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">cycle events observed.<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>For these time periods CYCSTATS (but not</div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">MMINTERVALS or MDINTERVALS) has rows, but these rows contain</div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">little in the way of information.</div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; min-height: 14px; "><br></div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">Probably, something needs to be done to the data.<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>But that's not</div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">the issue in which I'm interested.</div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; min-height: 14px; "><br></div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">I want to know if the cycstats building process is 'wrong' and</div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">needs fixing, or if that will just be sweeping data problems under</div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">the rug.</div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; min-height: 14px; "><br></div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">My inclination is to leave the programs alone.<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Trying to write</div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">programs that "do the right thing" when the data is bad</div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">is ultimately futile, and makes it more difficult to</div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">discover and diagnose problems.</div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; min-height: 14px; "><br></div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">Let me know.<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>The fix should be a matter of a few minutes if that's</div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">what we want to do.</div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; min-height: 14px; "><br></div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">Note that the problem is, I think, due to some 1 day long periods</div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">of observation that interrupt longer periods of no observation.</div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; min-height: 14px; "><br></div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">Another possibility to consider is to put validation rules</div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">on CYCSTATS that prohibit this sort of data (NULL for all of</div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">dins, dr, cpids, and cpide).<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>I'm not sure I like this, for</div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">2 reasons.<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>The first is that the data is all generated, and</div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">(maybe) we should be able to prevent the generation of bad</div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">data.<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>(I can always have the data generation program</div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">die and spit out an error message.)<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>The second is that</div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">I've not thought through all the</div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">implications, there may be times when we want (or need)</div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">to have this sort of "empty" data.<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>(Obviously, we don't</div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">really _want_ it, but there could be times when it's</div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">either unavoidable or the lesser evil.)</div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; min-height: 14px; "><br></div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">FYI, I found these by looking at the result of:</div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">select * from cycstats where not exists (select 1 from mmintervals where mmintervals.sname = cycstats.sname and mmintervals.date = cycstats.date);</div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; min-height: 14px; "><br></div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">The results happen to correspond with the problems revealed</div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">by the following query:</div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; min-height: 14px; "><br></div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">babase=> select * from cycstats where dins is null and dr is null and cpids is null and cpide is null order by sname, date;</div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; "><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>csid<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>|<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>date<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>| sname | state | dins | dr | cpids | cpide</div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">--------+------------+-------+-------+------+----+-------+-------</div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; "><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>271379 | 1991-07-24 | HUR <span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>| D <span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>|<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>|<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>| <span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>|</div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; "><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>341226 | 1980-04-13 | NEE <span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>| S <span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>|<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>|<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>| <span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>|</div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; "><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>428268 | 1980-05-31 | WIL <span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>| S <span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>|<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>|<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>| <span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>|</div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">(3 rows)</div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; min-height: 14px; "><br></div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">(Note that the 'HUR' state is just plain wrong.<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>The individual</div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">is pregnant on that day, not deturgesent.)</div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; min-height: 14px; "><br></div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">babase=> select * from cycstats, cycgaps where dins is null and dr is null and cpids is null and cpide is null and cycstats.sname = cycgaps.sname and cycstats.date = cycgaps.date order by cycstats.sname, cycstats.date;</div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; "><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>csid<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>|<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>date<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>| sname | state | dins | dr | cpids | cpide | gapid | sname | code |<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>date<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>| state</div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">--------+------------+-------+-------+------+----+-------+-------+-------+-------+------+------------+-------</div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; "><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>271379 | 1991-07-24 | HUR <span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>| D <span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>|<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>|<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>| <span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>| <span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>| <span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>143 | HUR <span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>| P<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>| 1991-07-24 | D</div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; "><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>341226 | 1980-04-13 | NEE <span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>| S <span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>|<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>|<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>| <span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>| <span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>| <span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>325 | NEE <span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>| P<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>| 1980-04-13 | S</div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; "><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>428268 | 1980-05-31 | WIL <span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>| S <span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>|<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>|<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>| <span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>| <span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>| <span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>354 | WIL <span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>| P<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>| 1980-05-31 | S</div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">(3 rows)</div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; min-height: 14px; "><br></div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">babase=> select * from cycstats, cycpoints_cycles where dins is null and dr is null and cpids is null and cpide is null and cycstats.sname = cycpoints_cycles.sname and cycpoints_cycles.date = cycstats.date order by cycstats.sname, cycstats.date;</div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; "><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>csid | date | sname | state | dins | dr | cpids | cpide | cid | sname | seq | series | cpid | date | edate | ldate | code | source</div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">------+------+-------+-------+------+----+-------+-------+-----+-------+-----+--------+------+------+-------+-------+------+--------</div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">(0 rows)</div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; min-height: 14px; "><br></div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; min-height: 14px; "><br></div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">Karl <<a href="mailto:kop@meme.com">kop@meme.com</a>></div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">Free Software:<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>"You don't pay back, you pay forward."</div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; "><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>-- Robert A. Heinlein</div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; min-height: 14px; "><br></div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">_______________________________________________</div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">Babase mailing list</div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">Babase@<a href="http://www.eco.princeton.edu">www.eco.princeton.edu</a></div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; "><a href="http://www.eco.princeton.edu/mailman/listinfo/babase">http://www.eco.princeton.edu/mailman/listinfo/babase</a></div> </blockquote></div><br><div> <span class="Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse: separate; border-spacing: 0px 0px; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 14px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; text-align: auto; -khtml-text-decorations-in-effect: none; text-indent: 0px; -apple-text-size-adjust: auto; text-transform: none; orphans: 2; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; "><span class="Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse: separate; border-spacing: 0px 0px; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 14px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; text-align: auto; -khtml-text-decorations-in-effect: none; text-indent: 0px; -apple-text-size-adjust: auto; text-transform: none; orphans: 2; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; "><div>-----------------------------------------------</div><div>Susan Alberts, Dept. Biology, Duke University, Durham NC 27708. Phone 919-660-7272, Fax 919-660-7293. <a href="mailto:alberts@duke.edu">alberts@duke.edu</a></div><div><br class="khtml-block-placeholder"></div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"></span></span> </div><br></div></body></html>