[Babase] Fwd: quick tooth question
Jeanne Altmann
altj at Princeton.EDU
Sun Jul 18 14:38:42 EDT 2010
I'm also ok if additional entry is accurate and little time, and if there are no other downsides.
Since the main purpose is to make it easier to query for decid. Vs permanent and the second option does that better and it the one preferred by Jordi, let's go with it.
jeanne
-----Original Message-----
From: babase-bounces at eeblistserv.princeton.edu [mailto:babase-bounces at eeblistserv.princeton.edu] On Behalf Of Susan Alberts
Sent: Friday, July 16, 2010 10:19 PM
To: The Baboon Database Project
Subject: Re: [Babase] Fwd: quick tooth question
Thanks for the clarification, I didn't understand you were proposing
both. I am fine with using both numbers and the "upper left M1"
designations. I didn't understand system one of the two that Lacey
sent, so i guess I would go with two.
Susan
On Jul 16, 2010, at 12:20 PM, Karl O. Pinc wrote:
> On 07/16/2010 09:01:25 AM, Jeanne Altmann wrote:
>> What does this gain us?
>
> It provides a mapping of sorts between deciduous
> and adult teeth. The toothcodes distinguish between
> deciduous and adult where toothsites do not. This
> way you can choose either to ignore deciduous-ness
> or not.
>
> The cost to do this is the cost of having this discussion.
> Once the support tables are populated with rows
> we can forget about it until a need
> arises to query one way or the other.
>
>>
>> jeanne
>>
>>
>>
>> From: babase-bounces at eeblistserv.princeton.edu
>> [mailto:babase-bounces at eeblistserv.princeton.edu] On Behalf Of Lacey
>> Maryott Roerish
>> Sent: Friday, July 16, 2010 10:00 AM
>> To: The Baboon Database Project
>> Subject: Re: [Babase] Fwd: quick tooth question
>>
>>
>>
>> To be clear, this numbering doesn't replace that system. We will
>> have
>> toothcodes such as upper right M1 (RUM1). The toothsites is a
>> different column in which we identify the actual site in the mouth
>> where the tooth is found.
>>
>>
>>
>> L
>>
>>
>>
>> On Fri, Jul 16, 2010 at 8:54 AM, Jeanne Altmann <altj at princeton.edu>
>> wrote:
>>
>> I agree; thanks for checking into options and conventions.
>> jeanne
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: babase-bounces at eeblistserv.princeton.edu
>> [mailto:babase-bounces at eeblistserv.princeton.edu] On Behalf Of Susan
>> Alberts
>> Sent: Friday, July 16, 2010 9:51 AM
>> To: The Baboon Database Project
>> Subject: Re: [Babase] Fwd: quick tooth question
>>
>> I don't think we should use either one of these. I realize that they
>> are standard, but none of us thinks or looks at teeth enough for
>> this
>> to be easy for us. I would prefer to stick with upper right M1, etc,
>> with the designation of D. for deciduous.
>>
>> Susan
>> On Jul 15, 2010, at 11:10 AM, Lacey Maryott R oerish wrote:
>>
>>> I consulted with Jordi regarding toothsites for the darting
>>> database. He said 2 systems for assigning toothsites are widely
>>> used. I have included links for both. I don't have a particular
>>> preference, except that the second one (The one recommended by
>>> jordi) differentiates more clearly between deciduous and adult.
>>> So for example, Using system one, the upper right decidous M1 would
>>> be toothsite 28, and the upper right permanent M1 would be
>> toothsite
>>> 30, whereas the upper right Permanent premolar 1 would be toothsite
>>> 28.
>>>
>>> http://www.redbankendodontics.com/images/referring-doctors/
>> permanent-dentition.gif
>>> (system 1)
>>>
>>> Using system two, the upper right decidous M1 would be toothsite
>> 54,
>>> and the upper right permanent M1 would be toothsite 16, whereas the
>>> upper right Permanent premolar 1 would be toothsite 14.
>>>
>>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dental_notation (system 2)
>>>
>>> Susan, Jeanne, do you have any preference? Anyone else have any
>> input?
>>>
>>> FWIW, jordi mentioned a third system, but that is basically what we
>>> are already using for the toothcodes. That is why i haven't
>>> elaborated on it here.
>>>
>>> Cheers
>>> Lacey
>>>
>>>
>>> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
>>> From: Jordi Galbany <jordigalbany at gmail.com>
>>> Date: Thu, Jul 15, 2010 at 6:40 AM
>>> Subject: Re: quick tooth question
>>> To: Lacey Maryott Roerish <lkm9 at duke.edu>
>>>
>>>
>>> Hi Lacey!
>>> I'm doing well! But still looking for a job! I hope you improve
>> your
>>> situation, whatever is going on...
>>>
>>>
>>> Regarding teeth positions, "sites" or notation, there are mostly 3
>>> methods than can be applied. The first one is the diagram you found
>>> (the Universal numbering system)... but I think is not really very
>>> intuitive... There is a second numeric system, more logical, where
>> you
>>> also assign a number to a tooth, but taking into account if that
>>> particular tooth is on the left of right side, and lower or upper
>>> jaw... following this diagram (World dental federation system):
>>>
>>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dental_notation
>>>
>>>
>>> Both systems are numeric, but you have to add letters (Universal
>>> system) or more numbers (WDF system) for milk teeth...
>>>
>>>
>>> I don't like any of these systems, although I have to use them
>>> sometimes, especially for particular analysis. I prefer to use a
>>> more descriptive method, more common in anthropology. As, for
>>> example, LLM1 (lower left M1 or first molar), URI2 (upper right I2
>> o
>>> second incisor)... Even LM1 for lower and LM1 for upper... Always,
>> "I"
>>> means incisor, "C": canine, "P": premolar and "M": molar. Capital
>>> letters is used for adult teeth and for milk teeth you use "i", "c"
>>> and "m", but the same system...
>>>
>>>
>>> Humans and baboons have the same number of teeth... so you can use
>>> any of these notations for both...
>>>
>>>
>>> I hope it's clear enough!
>>>
>>>
>>> Best,
>>>
>>> jordi
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> El 14/07/2010 17:47, Lacey Maryott Roerish escribió:
>>>> Jordi,
>>>>
>>>> Hello! how are you? Doing ok here, things a bit
>> complicated
>>>> right now, But I will be ok :). I have one more quick question
>>>> for you. I am trying to assign 'tooth sites' for each of the
>> teeth
>>>> in the baboon's mouth. I found a diagram online, but can you tell
>>>> me if this is the generally accepted labeling of tooth sites? We
>>>> just need SOME numeric system.
>>>>
>>>> http://www.redbankendodontics.com/images/referring-doctors/
>> permanent-dentition.gif
>>>>
>>>> Thanks so much
>>>> Lacey
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> - -
>>> Lacey K. Maryott Roerish
>>> Alberts Lab
>>> Department of Biology
>>> Duke University
>>> ph: 919-660-7306
>>> fax: 919-660-7293
>>> Lacey.Maryott at duke.edu
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Babase mailing list
>>> Babase at www.eco.princeton.edu
>>> http://www.eco.princeton.edu/mailman/listinfo/babase
>>
>> --------------------------------------------------------
>> Susan Alberts, Dept of Biology, Duke University, Box 90338, Durham NC
>> 27708, 919-660-7272 (Ph), 919-660-7293 (Fax)
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
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>>
>>
>> --
>> - -
>> Lacey K. Maryott Roerish
>> Alberts Lab
>> Department of Biology
>> Duke University
>> ph: 919-660-7306
>> fax: 919-660-7293
>> Lacey.Maryott at duke.edu
>>
>>
>
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> Karl <kop at meme.com>
> Free Software: "You don't pay back, you pay forward."
> -- Robert A. Heinlein
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--------------------------------------------------------
Susan Alberts, Dept of Biology, Duke University, Box 90338, Durham NC
27708, 919-660-7272 (Ph), 919-660-7293 (Fax)
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