[Babase] REPSTATS and the unborn

Jeanne Altmann babase@www.eco.princeton.edu
Mon, 03 May 2004 18:06:20 -0400


1.  Can Steph check that all females who are pregnant when they die have an 
abortion listed on their death date.  When I do the coding, this should 
happen.  However, if I miss it and the data person doesn't catch that I 
missed it, this would result in an error in BABASE.  So, we need to check 
that for now.

2.  I favor having repstat work for pregnancies the way it works for 
lactation--put the row in from conception even though the 'days remaining' 
column will not be meaningful until the state ends.  Does anyone see a 
problem with this?  I understand that we won't implement the change until 
we have the web version up.

jeanne


At 11:32 AM 5/3/2004 -0400, you wrote:
>Hi all,
>
>This issue is the exact issue I brought up on my email of April 22 (it
>wasn't to the whole Babase list, Karl, because it had to do with data we
>were pulling together for Joan Silk).  Yes, I discovered that females who
>were pregant but had not yet given birth did not have rows in Repstats for
>their pregnancies.  I had said then that I didn't really see this as a
>problem, just something to be aware of.
>
>Karl, I believe the same is NOT true for lactating females.  What I found
>was that lactating females were in there up till the end of time period of
>the table, even if their lactating state had not ended.  Correct me if I'm
>wrong about that.  This means that days remaining in state isn't meaningful
>for lactating females, but days into state is fine.  This seems fine to me,
>since lactation is such a relatively prolonged state - if we waited until
>it was over to put the lines in Repstas, like for pregnancies, we'd be
>missing a lot more data.  Again, it would just be something to be aware of.
>
>About the abortions in Biograph, all of them that are in there do have
>birth dates (everyone without an sname has a birth date, and the ones
>without snames are the same as the ones with equal birth and statdates).
>But I was thinking recently about females who died while they were pregnant
>and making sure those pregnancies were getting into Biograph.  I have been
>aware of it recently and have been checking for this when I do the
>demography update, but I think it would be good to check in the past.
>Maybe the best way would be to get all the females who died as adults and
>see if they were pregnant when they died, and then see if those pregnancies
>are in Biograph.  Or maybe look at the pregnancies in the Pregs table that
>don't have resume cycles.  Let me know if this is something I should do
>here, or if that's something Steph wants to work on.
>
>Karl, if a female dies while she's pregnant, does she then get lines in
>Repstats for her pregnancy (from conception till death)?  I can check this,
>but I thought you might know off hand.  If so, then it might make checking
>the above easier.
>
>Daphne
>
>
>"Karl O. Pinc" wrote:
>
> > On 2004.05.01 15:34 Jeanne Altmann wrote:
> > > We definitely need to check abortions (including fetal death when mom
> > > dies) to be sure we get birth dates).
> >
> > I imagine you already have birthdates, as this is the only record of
> > the date
> > of the abortion.
> >
> > > I don't recall why we made this decision, but we should consider all
> > > the implications now.  This decision does mean that repstat will have
> > > the wrong stat for many females for approximately the most recent
> > > 6mos of updates.  This isn't good, so I'm inclined to change this
> > > unless there's a good reason not to.
> >
> > It's not that you have the wrong stat, you have no row at all and
> > so no stat.  This seems reasonable to me.  If you did have a row
> > it would have the wrong number for 'days remaining in state'.
> > With no row, using SQL, you get no results for 'incomplete'
> > pregnancies.  This _sounds_ ok to me.
> >
> > I'm going to try this with some test data to be sure what I think
> > is happening is happening.
> >
> > Note that there's lots of wierd data in REPSTATS, as the system
> > dosen't know that two sequential cycles years apart mean that
> > data is missing, not that one cycle is especially long.
> > It _does_ know that data is missing when there's a missing tdate
> > or ddate in a cycles row, and then rows don't appear.  I've
> > been going over this with Steph.  It seems that the first step
> > when using this data is to eliminate nonsensical rows.
> > Of course, I can make the program do _anything_, if we have
> > good things for it to do.  I'm kind of opting for simple and
> > understandable, and what we've got now seems to meet that
> > criteria, although I'm biased because I've been working with it.
> >
> > >
> > > jeanne
> > >
> > > At 01:16 PM 5/1/2004 -0500, you wrote:
> > >> Hi,
> > >>
> > >> Looking over the program that populates REPSTATS
> > >> I notice that when there's a pregnancy you don't get
> > >> P rows in repstats until the offspring has a birthdate.
> > >> I belive this was intentional, especially as there
> > >> is a 'days remaining' in state column which couldn't
> > >> be filled out until the length of the state is known,
> > >> but there are implications.  I figured I'd write as
> > >> we're starting to work with this data.
> > >>
> > >> All abortions must have rows in BIOGRAPH with a Birth date.
> > >>
> > >> The as-yet-unborn don't show in REPSTATS.
> > >>
> > >> Karl <kop@meme.com>
> > >> Free Software:  "You don't pay back, you pay forward."
> > >>                  -- Robert A. Heinlein
> > >> _______________________________________________
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> > Karl <kop@meme.com>
> > Free Software:  "You don't pay back, you pay forward."
> >                    -- Robert A. Heinlein
> >
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