[Babase] Matured Dates after Statdate

kfenn kfenn at princeton.edu
Mon Nov 20 16:29:03 EST 2006


Hi Susan,

I think the only outstanding individual to date is WAR, a male.  (I've 
just figured out solutions for three females with a similar problem 
(MAV, ROV, DEE). 

WAR was first censused in Altos group on Jan 19, 1977.  He was last 
censused in Altos groups on 1978-10-16 (so statdate = 1978-10-16). 
 Altos census continued after this but WAR was not part of it.  This was 
not surprising since he had been missing from the group during some Oct 
census days.   I specifically checked  the Sept 1980 data (his supposed 
maturedate was 1980-09-01) to see if there was a record of his 
reappearance.  There was not.  His birthday was estimated to be 1966 so 
a 1980 maturedate seems way out of bounds.  He was probably matured by 
the time he was being census in 1977, but I can't find a specific place 
where it confirms maturity so I'm not comfortable changing the date to 
something earlier. 

All this comes from the old data sheets I sent to Duke recently.  I 
think Leah was going to have you review this so I'm not sure if that was 
the intent of her original email about the statdate/maturedate issue. 

Tabby


Susan Alberts wrote:
>>
>> The individuals I am dealing with appear to have artificially 
>> assigned  matured date. 
>
> How can you tell? Can you give me some examples?
>
>
>> Observations on some groups (like Protons)  seem to have been 
>> discontinued after a certain period. 
>
> Observations were discontinued on a regular basis, but we continued to 
> see Proton's group and record information about its members for many 
> years after this.
>
> Susan
>
>> I have found no evidence that the individuals with errors were seen 
>> after the last statdate.
>>
>> How would you like to proceed given this?  I understand your point 
>> about the artificial statdates, but that doesn't seem to be the case 
>> here.
>>
>>
>> Tabby
>>
>> Susan Alberts wrote:
>>> I think that if we have a matured date that occurs after the 
>>> statdate, the obvious inference is that the statdate is incorrect. I 
>>> think we need to change the statdate. I am pretty sure that we made 
>>> this decision, but I think it probably got lost in the shuffle.
>>>
>>> Specifically, I recall that we realized that a lot of animals in 
>>> proton's have an artificial statdate -- that in many cases we know 
>>> they were around after the statdate because we saw them and have 
>>> info on them. Eventually, in principle, we want to update all these 
>>> statdates to reflect reality. In principle, we only need to do it 
>>> now for the ones that are causing conversion errors.
>>>
>>> So, make the statdate equal to the maturedate for now.
>>>
>>> Susan
>>>
>>> On Nov 13, 2006, at 7:48 PM, Leah Gerber wrote:
>>>
>>>> Karl and Susan,
>>>>
>>>> I just wanted to check to see if we had made a final decision on 
>>>> whether matured "by" dates could be after statdates. For dispersed 
>>>> dates this is allowed but I thought we had decided it would not be 
>>>> allowed for matured dates. Tabby has a couple of outstanding 
>>>> conversion errors for which this occurs.  The options are:
>>>>
>>>> 1. allow this to occur (like for dispersed dates)
>>>> 2. change the date to the statdate
>>>> 3. delete the date
>>>>
>>>> I think the answer needs to be explicitly stated in the documentation.
>>>>
>>>> Thanks,
>>>>
>>>> Leah
>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>> Babase at www.eco.princeton.edu <http://www.eco.princeton.edu>
>>>> http://www.eco.princeton.edu/mailman/listinfo/babase
>>>
>>> -----------------------------------------------
>>> Susan Alberts, Dept. Biology, Duke University, Durham NC 27708. 
>>> Phone 919-660-7272, Fax 919-660-7293. alberts at duke.edu 
>>> <mailto:alberts at duke.edu>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>
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>>> http://www.eco.princeton.edu/mailman/listinfo/babase
>>>
>>>   
>>>
>>
>> -- 
>> Tabby Fenn
>> Research Assistant
>>
>> Dept of Ecology and Evolutionary Biology
>> 401 Guyot Hall
>> Princeton University
>> Princeton, NJ  08544
>>
>> 609 258-6898 (Ph)
>> 609 258-2712 (Fx)
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Babase mailing list
>> Babase at www.eco.princeton.edu <http://www.eco.princeton.edu>
>> http://www.eco.princeton.edu/mailman/listinfo/babase
>
> -----------------------------------------------
> Susan Alberts, Dept. Biology, Duke University, Durham NC 27708. Phone 
> 919-660-7272, Fax 919-660-7293. alberts at duke.edu <mailto:alberts at duke.edu>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
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> http://www.eco.princeton.edu/mailman/listinfo/babase
>   

-- 
Tabby Fenn
Research Assistant

Dept of Ecology and Evolutionary Biology
401 Guyot Hall
Princeton University
Princeton, NJ  08544

609 258-6898 (Ph)
609 258-2712 (Fx)



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