[Babase] REPSTATS and the unborn
Stephanie Combes
babase@www.eco.princeton.edu
Tue, 04 May 2004 15:46:44 -0400
OK- In answer to Jeanne's first question: all is well. The only
pregnancies that are missing in biograph are the current ones we don't know
the result of (i.e. all are for pregnant females who are still alive, as of
the end of June 2003 census). So, we are catching those deaths/aborts that
are a result of mom dying while pregnant.
-steph
--On Monday, May 03, 2004 6:06 PM -0400 Jeanne Altmann <altj@princeton.edu>
wrote:
> 1. Can Steph check that all females who are pregnant when they die have
> an abortion listed on their death date. When I do the coding, this
> should happen. However, if I miss it and the data person doesn't catch
> that I missed it, this would result in an error in BABASE. So, we need
> to check that for now.
>
> 2. I favor having repstat work for pregnancies the way it works for
> lactation--put the row in from conception even though the 'days
> remaining' column will not be meaningful until the state ends. Does
> anyone see a problem with this? I understand that we won't implement the
> change until we have the web version up.
>
> jeanne
>
>
> At 11:32 AM 5/3/2004 -0400, you wrote:
>> Hi all,
>>
>> This issue is the exact issue I brought up on my email of April 22 (it
>> wasn't to the whole Babase list, Karl, because it had to do with data we
>> were pulling together for Joan Silk). Yes, I discovered that females who
>> were pregant but had not yet given birth did not have rows in Repstats
>> for their pregnancies. I had said then that I didn't really see this as
>> a problem, just something to be aware of.
>>
>> Karl, I believe the same is NOT true for lactating females. What I found
>> was that lactating females were in there up till the end of time period
>> of the table, even if their lactating state had not ended. Correct me
>> if I'm wrong about that. This means that days remaining in state isn't
>> meaningful for lactating females, but days into state is fine. This
>> seems fine to me, since lactation is such a relatively prolonged state -
>> if we waited until it was over to put the lines in Repstas, like for
>> pregnancies, we'd be missing a lot more data. Again, it would just be
>> something to be aware of.
>>
>> About the abortions in Biograph, all of them that are in there do have
>> birth dates (everyone without an sname has a birth date, and the ones
>> without snames are the same as the ones with equal birth and statdates).
>> But I was thinking recently about females who died while they were
>> pregnant and making sure those pregnancies were getting into Biograph.
>> I have been aware of it recently and have been checking for this when I
>> do the demography update, but I think it would be good to check in the
>> past. Maybe the best way would be to get all the females who died as
>> adults and see if they were pregnant when they died, and then see if
>> those pregnancies are in Biograph. Or maybe look at the pregnancies in
>> the Pregs table that don't have resume cycles. Let me know if this is
>> something I should do here, or if that's something Steph wants to work
>> on.
>>
>> Karl, if a female dies while she's pregnant, does she then get lines in
>> Repstats for her pregnancy (from conception till death)? I can check
>> this, but I thought you might know off hand. If so, then it might make
>> checking the above easier.
>>
>> Daphne
>>
>>
>> "Karl O. Pinc" wrote:
>>
>> > On 2004.05.01 15:34 Jeanne Altmann wrote:
>> > > We definitely need to check abortions (including fetal death when mom
>> > > dies) to be sure we get birth dates).
>> >
>> > I imagine you already have birthdates, as this is the only record of
>> > the date
>> > of the abortion.
>> >
>> > > I don't recall why we made this decision, but we should consider all
>> > > the implications now. This decision does mean that repstat will have
>> > > the wrong stat for many females for approximately the most recent
>> > > 6mos of updates. This isn't good, so I'm inclined to change this
>> > > unless there's a good reason not to.
>> >
>> > It's not that you have the wrong stat, you have no row at all and
>> > so no stat. This seems reasonable to me. If you did have a row
>> > it would have the wrong number for 'days remaining in state'.
>> > With no row, using SQL, you get no results for 'incomplete'
>> > pregnancies. This _sounds_ ok to me.
>> >
>> > I'm going to try this with some test data to be sure what I think
>> > is happening is happening.
>> >
>> > Note that there's lots of weird data in REPSTATS, as the system
>> > dosen't know that two sequential cycles years apart mean that
>> > data is missing, not that one cycle is especially long.
>> > It _does_ know that data is missing when there's a missing tdate
>> > or ddate in a cycles row, and then rows don't appear. I've
>> > been going over this with Steph. It seems that the first step
>> > when using this data is to eliminate nonsensical rows.
>> > Of course, I can make the program do _anything_, if we have
>> > good things for it to do. I'm kind of opting for simple and
>> > understandable, and what we've got now seems to meet that
>> > criteria, although I'm biased because I've been working with it.
>> >
>> > >
>> > > jeanne
>> > >
>> > > At 01:16 PM 5/1/2004 -0500, you wrote:
>> > >> Hi,
>> > >>
>> > >> Looking over the program that populates REPSTATS
>> > >> I notice that when there's a pregnancy you don't get
>> > >> P rows in repstats until the offspring has a birthdate.
>> > >> I belive this was intentional, especially as there
>> > >> is a 'days remaining' in state column which couldn't
>> > >> be filled out until the length of the state is known,
>> > >> but there are implications. I figured I'd write as
>> > >> we're starting to work with this data.
>> > >>
>> > >> All abortions must have rows in BIOGRAPH with a Birth date.
>> > >>
>> > >> The as-yet-unborn don't show in REPSTATS.
>> > >>
>> > >> Karl <kop@meme.com>
>> > >> Free Software: "You don't pay back, you pay forward."
>> > >> -- Robert A. Heinlein
>> > >> _______________________________________________
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>> > Karl <kop@meme.com>
>> > Free Software: "You don't pay back, you pay forward."
>> > -- Robert A. Heinlein
>> >
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